Rich Benjamin is the author of Searching for Whitopia: An Improbable Journey to the Heart of White America. A self-described “journalist-adventurer,” Benjamin is a writer, think tank fellow, and frequent commentator on MSNBC, NPR, Fox News, and The New York Times. Apogee Journal Editor-at-Large Melody Nixon interviewed Benjamin about race in North America.
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NIXON
Let’s start by talking about the idea of the post-racial society. Fierce criticism of your book, Searching for Whitopia, came from commentators who say thatracism is no longer an issue in America. Politically speaking, who uses the terms “post-racial” and “color blind” in America?
BENJAMIN
For the most part these are center-left concepts, from people who say they have “racial fatigue.”
NIXON
What do you think about these terms?
BENJAMIN
There are a lot of people with good will who want a post-racial, color blind society. I think we need to get beyond that mythos. Because when we look at the recent news – whether it’s Trayvon Martin, whether it’s the young boy Jordan Davis who was shot by Michael Dunn while minding his own business, when these innocent black children are dead – we can’t at all pretend that we’re living in a post-racial society. The debate has to be had. The conversation has to be had.
NIXON
How would you encourage people with “racial fatigue,” as you describe it, to have this debate?
BENJAMIN
If I were talking to someone who was good willed, whether they were white or black, who said, “let the conversation lie, focus on what matters, i.e. the environment, or the economy, and let race alone,” I would point out that conservatives are not letting race alone. The Right is under no delusion that we have entered a post-racial society.
NIXON
The Right brings discussions of race into politics?
BENJAMIN
They’re perfectly happy to use race as a wedge issue, whether it’s to support gun laws, whether it’s to oppose public spending and the allocation of food stamps, whether it’s to talk about “illegals,” whether is to advocate for George Zimmerman’s acquittal — they will talk about race. It’s naïve and delusional for the Left to think that race doesn’t matter. We have to talk about it, and in a positive way, too.
NIXON
Let’s talk about race. Your book offers real insight into race relations across the country as, Barbara Ehrenreich-style, you actually travelled to and lived in racially homogeneous, “white only” communities around America. You spent time in these communities as a black man and journalist, and put yourself in some degree of danger. What led you to undertake this journey?
BENJAMIN
There’s a prediction that is fast becoming a reality in the U.S. By 2042, whites will no longer be the American majority. I am just fascinated by that statistic and the way it’s reported. In many instances in this country there’s an alarmist nature to the way that statistic is reported; it’s often frightening to readers. I jokingly call it the “white people deadline.” By 2042, white people’s majority status will expire. I just wanted to learn more about that, by going to white enclaves and seeing why there’s so much anxiety around that fact.
NIXON
And what did you find out? From where does the anxiety stem?
BENJAMIN
I think one of the most memorable comments I heard was in St. George, Utah, from a woman coming from Los Angeles. She felt that in Los Angeles diversity had been done poorly. For her diversity meant social strife, it meant graffiti, it meant gangs, it meant drug war. She said, very frankly, she’s “over it.” She also associated diversity with a form of multiculturalism she didn’t care for, that she felt was bullying and guilt tripping. So, in many cases, people who’d fled urban centers to Whitopias felt that diversity had been done badly. There was a fear those negative associations would increase if diversity returned.
NIXON
You coined the term Whitopia to describe the communities you visited. What exactly are these places like?
BENJAMIN
There are a couple important, salient qualities of the communities I visited, which I call Whitopias. A Whitopia has to be whiter than the U.S. in general, and right now the U.S. is about 69% white. A Whitopia has to be whiter than its respective region in the country. It has to have had at least 6% growth between 2000 and 2008, and the majority of that growth has to have to come from white residents. And the final quality that is absolutely crucial to a Whitopia is that it has to have a special social charm, a je ne sais quoi, a special look and feel.
NIXON
So, these are “pleasant” places to live?
BENJAMIN
Absolutely. One of the qualities of Whitopias is just a gorgeous sense of place, where you might have mountains, or lakes, or rivers, bike trails, hiking paths – this really contributes to the Whitopian allure. Who can blame someone for wanting that sense of place.
NIXON
Many of the places you visited in your travels are in the center of the country – in Utah, Wyoming, North Idaho – but you also visited Whitopian communities in Pennsylvania and New York. Here in New York City we’re led to believe that the coasts of the U.S. are more racially progressive than the center of the country. I’m curious, are there any real differences in the way that the coasts deal with race compared to the center?
BENJAMIN
I don’t think that’s the case. I think the racial issues can differ in the center of the country, but I don’t think it’s better on the coast. It’s a different set of racial issues, and a different set of “race phobias.” I would never qualify it as better or worse. What I’ve found in my experience is that there can be a level of self-satisfaction on the coasts that says they’ve handled their race related problems. I’ve come to find out that’s not the case. I’ve done some research here in Manhattan, where Whitopias exist.
NIXON
As someone who’d grown up with the stereotype of New York City as a melting pot, with little to no segregation, I was surprised and shocked by the reality when I moved here from New Zealand. A writer friend recently described the situation in New York City schools as “apartheid.” Why has the melting pot stereotype endured? Whose interest does it serve?
BENJAMIN
Yeah Melody, for what it’s worth, it was a shock to me too. I did buy into the stereotype of New York City as a melting pot. But what I learned from researching New York City is that diversity isn’t the same as integration. You can have diversity but that doesn’t mean you have integration. When I poked further – for example, I posed as a home buyer, falsely, who could afford a two million dollar home in the city and I went on a home search – I peeled back the layers of effort that go into keeping this city segregated. It was a lesson to me, and it was frightening. The segregation in New York City is also a function of class. I mean, the city is so riven by class. This is a commerce town, a company town, where money is king, and rich people have very effectively managed to segregate themselves. It is a racial issue too. You do have neighborhoods like the Upper West Side that are more integrated, but the segregated Whitopia I investigated is Carnegie Hill (on the Upper East Side of Manhattan).
NIXON
I’ve never noticed; does Carnegie Hill have a je ne sais quoi?
BENJAMIN
Oh yes, I believe so. The history of the buildings. The gorgeousness. People would roll on and on about the architectural pedigree of the buildings. That is a form of landscape that is beautiful and exclusive. I love architecture, so I loved listening.
NIXON
When you were posing as the two million dollar home buyer, did you encounter racial barriers?
BENJAMIN
It’s fascinating. I discovered the racial barriers aren’t against me, as a human being, or as a prospective buyer, the racial barriers are in the way real estateworks in the city. The way co-op laws work, the way you have residential versus commercial zoning, educational access. They all pose barriers to people of color entering wealthy, white-only communities, because of the sorts of assets, references, and connections they require, and because of the permitting processes too. Interpersonal racism, i.e., the bad will that exists between two human beings, has been on a sharp decline in this country, and people treat me well. But the social barriers that are erected by how communities are built leads to the segregation I have witnessed. Education in the city is as segregated today as it was in 1970, more than a generation ago, which is shocking.
NIXON
How much can you separate race and economic issues in America? They seem very complexly interwoven. You say interpersonal racism has improved, but institutionalized racism continues and is perhaps worsening, post-financial crisis. How do these institutionalized racial barriers interact with economic factors?
BENJAMIN
I do think about this a lot. For black people it’s devastating. After the housing crisis there have been huge losses of wealth — in terms of home equity, in terms of stock, in terms of bank and monetary assets. It’s been as devastating for the white working class. The eradication of wealth for white working class people has been horrific. Whereas the wealth of the one percent – and you know this – has grown exponentially since the recession. They’ve captured a disproportionate percentage of the gains since 2007. Although income isn’t meaningless, it’s not the meaningful panacea that people posit; wealth accumulation is critical.
NIXON
I’ve noticed people often intertwine privilege and income in this country. I’ve often heard we white people say “I don’t have a big income, I’m poor too, so this is not a white privilege issue,” without taking into account access to wealth through property ownership, family inheritance, education, lines of credit, and so forth, which factors do tend to fall along race lines in America. Assets are unevenly distributed.
BENJAMIN
This is what fascinates me. Americans are hopeful, that’s kind of our charm. There’s a pervasive idea that “I’m going to be the next millionaire.” Outside this country, people are aware of the multiple dimensions that make class – education, speech, assets, wealth, inheritance, all of it. All of these dimensions in America are shaped by institutionalized racism.
NIXON
Can you talk about the feedback to your book? Any press or criticisms you’d like to address?
BENJAMIN
I was positively surprised and pleased by the positive feedback. There’s been plenty of negative feedback. Some of it’s comical. Some of it will say, “Oh, thank you for writing this, I’d love to move to Whitopia. I wish it had been pointed out to me earlier. Thank you for identifying the Whitopias where I could move.” And they are dead serious. There was a conference at American Renaissance, which is a white separatist group, and one of the speakers there started waving the book, and he started talking about Whitopias, in a very positive way. So that’s the comical element.
NIXON
But it hasn’t all been comical?
BENJAMIN
The less comical element, which I took very seriously, were white Americans who said, “Can’t we put this behind us? The Civil Rights Movement was fifty years ago. Why did you have to write this book? Why do we have to dredge up this feeling and deal with this?” That’s the kind of less flattering feedback that I take very seriously; the sense of “racial fatigue.” I literally have two hundred emails that amount to that kind of negative feedback. The subtext is that I’m instigating, and I’m provoking white people who just want to live their lives. And I say, that’s really not the point. The point is, I’m trying to study something that’s important to us all.